. >> pakistan, syria, other places. and i suspect that president obama is not going to see in senator john kerry as much of an independent operator as we saw with, say, secretary clinton who pressed very hard with bob gates for a much more muscular expansion of the surge in afghanistan. she pressed very hard for the libya intervention. and i'm -- it's not clear to me yet that secretary kerry, if he is confirmed, would necessarily press as hard as she did on those issues. he may well surprise us on that. >> rose: she has high public marks for what she did as secretary of state. among the foreign policy people, what do they look at as her principal accomplishment? >> i think that the public marks have been a little bit higher, charlie, than what you hear from within the foreign policy community. that's usually the case in these cases. certainly when she went around the world she was a star in her own right. she certainly stood for a number of women's rights issues that are near and dear to her heart. but it was interestin